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 Post subject: 5th Wheel Too High?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:19 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:29 pm
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Location: North of Seattle
OR Year: 2017
OR Model: 319RLS
Member ID: ORF-7158
I could use some guidance. This is my first fifth wheel after years of bumper-pull. I just picked my 319RLS up on Wednesday but didn't realize until I hooked up today that the nose of the trailer seems really high. My Ram 2500 has a stock suspension, not lifted. I've alway towed my trailers level or slightly nose down. Attached is a URL for a pic of the setup. I'm concerned about suspension and the weight transfer to the rear axle. Am I over thinking it or should I be concerned? https://flic.kr/p/LB6biN

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 Post subject: Re: 5th Wheel Too High?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:41 pm 
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Location: Nazareth, PA
OR Year: 2014
OR Model: 427BHS
Member ID: ORF-3771
Yeah... she's high. Can you raise the pin box to the top notch? What do you have for a hitch?

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2014 Open Range 427BHS
2011 Ford F-350 Crew Cab 6.7L Powerstroke Diesel
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 Post subject: Re: 5th Wheel Too High?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:48 pm 
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OR Year: 2015
OR Model: LF297RLS
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Yep, it looks a bit too high to me, but not extremely so. (A great looking truck and trailer combo though!) Your dealer should set it up for you by adjusting the hitch or the trailer adapter as required. The only downside to that is reduced rail clearance from the truck to the overhang on the trailer. My light has only about 5-6" of rail clearance (less than what it appears that you have from the picture) and I've come close to touching when I've backed into a steeply descending campsite when the trailer wheels went abruptly lower than the truck.

There are also suspension options for the trailer as well for more extreme adjustments. There are many people here on the forum who can fill you in on that, and you can do a search through the archives.

I'm not sure how bad it is to pull slightly off kilter, but at the very least I would think the tire loading would not be symmetrical front to rear. I've definitely seen a lot worse examples of this going down the road, and I'm sure others will chime in with their opinions/advice..... I do remember reading here that other Ram owners have discussed this.

-Greg

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 Post subject: Re: 5th Wheel Too High?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:41 pm 
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Location: Portland, OR
OR Year: 2015
OR Model: RF316RLS
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I tow nose high about like yours (hard to tell from the angle in the photo).
Its not great but you want to the trailer stay well clear of the bed sides. That's an expensive impact.
What is your clearance? Bed's side wall to the trailer? Below 6" would make me nervous.

Axle load is another concern. To compensate some, I run 5psi more in the front axle than the rear.
Helps even out the tire temps, and I assume therefore the load. But if you still have China-bombs
on the 5er, then you may not have that option.

John

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 Post subject: Re: 5th Wheel Too High?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:00 pm 
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The rear axle has more load then the front with a nose high set-up. The extra air PSI in the front does not add up in my mind.
If you can get onto a scale and get a scale reading for each tire, you can judge if the set-up is balanced enough to tow safely.


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 Post subject: Re: 5th Wheel Too High?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:19 pm 
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Location: Portland, OR
OR Year: 2015
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Free2Camp wrote:
The rear axle has more load then the front with a nose high set-up. The extra air PSI in the front does not add up in my mind.
If you can get onto a scale and get a scale reading for each tire, you can judge if the set-up is balanced enough to tow safely.

It is complicated. The idea behind more psi in the front is to slightly change the profile of the tire to be taller than the rear.
To better reach the ground and carry more weight on that axle. Yes, scales should be employed to be sure. Scales per tire are tricky.
You need to be absolutely certain that the scales are exactly the same height for all four tire (or six BCM) or the measurements are meaningless.

John

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 Post subject: Re: 5th Wheel Too High?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:45 pm 
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Location: Howard County,MD
OR Year: 2012
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You guys are using way too much new math/physics for me!
More air to change the profile of the tire! Hah!
If anything more air in the rear tires would help carry more of the load.
But all of this talk of correcting the nose high scenario by airing the tires differently is just silly.
If you cannot correct the situation by adjusting the pin. Then the axles on the rear of the trailer will have to be raised.
There are real tangible solutions vs. recreating the laws of physics

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 Post subject: Re: 5th Wheel Too High?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:54 pm 
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OR Year: 2015
OR Model: 3x349rls
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Mor Ryde does offer a setup to level your rig out. They cut the suspension off and add tubing to the suspension to level the rig to your truck. I believe it runs about $1000 but I'll let you know for sure as I am having it done the week before the Coming Home Rally next year.Dave

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2016 Ram 3500 cummins/aisin trans. 4x4 cclb


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 Post subject: Re: 5th Wheel Too High?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:27 pm 
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Lantley wrote:
You guys are using way too much new math/physics for me!
More air to change the profile of the tire! Hah!
If anything more air in the rear tires would help carry more of the load.
But all of this talk of correcting the nose high scenario by airing the tires differently is just silly.
If you cannot correct the situation by adjusting the pin. Then the axles on the rear of the trailer will have to be raised.
There are real tangible solutions vs. recreating the laws of physics


Hahahaha I like your practical side!
But i think you missed the point.
We want the front to carry more load, not the rear!
Its already working overtime due to the nose high problem.
Hence more air in the front and a taller tire.

Oh well, the best solution is Jarhead's mechanical fix.

I am so jealous of those guys who have older F250's and pull into a level site for the night and never un-hook.
Just hit autolevel and they are done. Next morning they are last up and the first to leave.
Dave, I want to hear that your Mor Ryde setup will make that possible! Please.

I can dream, can't I?
John

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 Post subject: Re: 5th Wheel Too High?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:11 am 
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I'll post with before and after pics next year when I get it done.Dave

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 Post subject: Re: 5th Wheel Too High?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 5:26 am 
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OR Year: 2014
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How much more air are you putting in the tires to make a difference? While logically it makes sense, practically it doesn't because of the tire's science. More air means overinflated, or an under inflated other set... Then add in ambient temps, road heat, increased PSIs and tire temps... all that changes and too much and too little is, well, too much and too little because you've disregarded the tires max pressure setting. I can't see how that practice could help other than psychologically.

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2014 Open Range 427BHS
2011 Ford F-350 Crew Cab 6.7L Powerstroke Diesel
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 Post subject: Re: 5th Wheel Too High?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:42 am 
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Location: Plano, TX
OR Year: 2016
OR Model: 337RLS
Member ID: ORF-3714
cwppwc wrote:
I could use some guidance. This is my first fifth wheel after years of bumper-pull. I just picked my 319RLS up on Wednesday but didn't realize until I hooked up today that the nose of the trailer seems really high. My Ram 2500 has a stock suspension, not lifted. I've alway towed my trailers level or slightly nose down. Attached is a URL for a pic of the setup. I'm concerned about suspension and the weight transfer to the rear axle. Am I over thinking it or should I be concerned? https://flic.kr/p/LB6biN


I have the same truck. It rides much higher in the rear than my Ford did. You will not be able to lower your pin box enough to bring down without contacting your truck bed. With mine being nose high, it would consistently lock up the front trailer tires as they were so lightly loaded on braking. And the towing experience ride was horrible. I had a commercial trailer shop make 2.5" blocks, new U bolts and lengthen the brake wires in order to level mine. It tows, brakes and handles much better now. That was $400 well spent. I believe Heavysledz on here has your same truck and trailer and did the same.

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 Post subject: Re: 5th Wheel Too High?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:43 am 
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BCM wrote:
How much more air are you putting in the tires to make a difference? While logically it makes sense, practically it doesn't because of the tire's science. More air means overinflated, or an under inflated other set... Then add in ambient temps, road heat, increased PSIs and tire temps... all that changes and too much and too little is, well, too much and too little because you've disregarded the tires max pressure setting. I can't see how that practice could help other than psychologically.

Correct Mark you said what I was thinking. You cannot change the profile of the tire by adding air to it without compromising the performance and wear of the tires.
Essentially you want to correct a riding nose high condition by overinflating the tires :?:
Not only will that not fix the original nose high problem but it will create a tire wear problem.
Yes you need to find a suspension adjusting solution.
I was able to raise the rear of my trailer 2" using a correct Trax kit. Others have had success with Mor Ryde 4000 suspensions. While others have used steel spaces to raise rear.
With today's higher truck's nose high has become a common issue. There are viable solutions available, airing up tires is not one of them...LOL

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Arvika rack,BakFlip,5500 Onan,RVLock,RVsafepower
RV760,PIsurge,GSR Steps,Titan Disc,Sailun
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 Post subject: Re: 5th Wheel Too High?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:20 pm 
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Location: North of Seattle
OR Year: 2017
OR Model: 319RLS
Member ID: ORF-7158
Followup: Dealership recommended a local shop to do a suspension lift on my new 319RLS. I need about 4" of lift to get level. Talking with the shop, they said they won't install lift blocks due to liability issues. They weld a channel to the frame and reattach the suspension. Anything 3" or greater they weld frame cross braces. Total cost for the lift is $1800. Has anyone done this type of lift and if so, was your cost comparable?

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2017 Open Range Light 319RLS 5th Wheel
2015 Ram 2500 Laramie Limited Crew Cab
6.7 Cummins Diesel 4X4 with 6.4 Bed
B&W Companion 5th Wheel Hitch
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TireTraker TPMS


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 Post subject: Re: 5th Wheel Too High?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:50 pm 
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Location: Portland, OR
OR Year: 2015
OR Model: RF316RLS
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cwppwc wrote:
Followup: Dealership recommended a local shop to do a suspension lift on my new 319RLS. I need about 4" of lift to get level. Talking with the shop, they said they won't install lift blocks due to liability issues. They weld a channel to the frame and reattach the suspension. Anything 3" or greater they weld frame cross braces. Total cost for the lift is $1800. Has anyone done this type of lift and if so, was your cost comparable?

I am looking into having this done also. I would strongly recommend the cross braces. One weakness of these frames is the thin webbing of the I-beam frame members, leading to cracking due to the tandem axle twisting forces experienced when pulling or backing thru tight corners. The frame cracks typically appear at the point where the fresh water tank braces are welded to the I-beam webbing. Cross braces welded to the extension channel should completely contain that twisting force.

I'd be interested pics of what they do, if you pursue this work.

John

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 Post subject: Re: 5th Wheel Too High?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:17 pm 
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Looked at doing the suspension lift but finally decided to have the independent suspension installed next year right before the CHR. Is it worth the $2800, from reports here and peace of mind that it will be riding level when they're done, I consider it well worth it.Dave

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