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 Post subject: Re: License requirements
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:56 am 
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Location: Vail, AZ
OR Year: 2015
OR Model: RF367BHS
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jfmjr wrote:
Slinger, I would argue to the weight police that you are double counting about 2000 lbs in tongue weight to get to 26800.

John


I agree, but it sounds to me like some laws are written that are only considering the GVWR of the vehicles. I guess my point is that the laws are confusing, and I doubt even the enforcers really understand them.

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 Post subject: Re: License requirements
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:10 pm 
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Location: St. Petersburg, FL
OR Year: 2017
OR Model: 3X427BHS
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OK folks. I confirmed with a FL DOT weight inspector. If the total combined GCWR (that's max you CAN carry, not what you ARE caring, truck + trailer) is less then 26,001, no CDL is required and no medical, logs, randoms, etc. For FL, this is only for non-RV, towed units (such as flatbeds, equipment, horse, etc.). The 10,000 lb trailer limit only applies, requiring a Class A license (again, in FL, other states may vary) if the tow vehicle exceeds 26000 GVWR. Tow vehicle less than 26,001 lbs, you can tow any type trailer GVWR up to the combined weight of 26000lbs, with no CDL issues. RV's there is no weight limitations and any weight is legal on standard license. States are supposed to have a reciprocal agreement, which means if I'm legal in my home state, I'm legal in all states. US DOT regulations only effect commercial vehicles with GVWR of over 26000lbs. So no Federal issues all around. Happy travels. :Ban

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Last edited by BaracW on Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: License requirements
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:17 pm 
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Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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OR Model: 3X427BHS
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slinger wrote:
The GVWR of my truck is 12300. The GVWR of my trailer is 14500. The GCWR is 25000. So even though my GCWR is well under 26000 and I am well under 23000 on the CAT scale, it sounds like my "total combination weight" in certain states may be 26800?

It sure is confusing.


I'm not sure I follow. To get a GCWR, you must add the GVWR of the truck with the GVWR of the trailer. Your 12300# truck + 14500# trailer=GCWR 26500#. You would be over by 500#, and if you are from a state that requires a special license or CDL for that weight, could be ticked for overweight, if you didn't have that license. I understand those tickets can be 4 figures. Fortunately, AZ also exempts RV's from this weight calculation for CDL's and you should be good everywhere too.

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 Post subject: Re: License requirements
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:44 pm 
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Location: Chesapeake, VA
OR Year: 2015
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I am right at 27000 every time I hook up. I was told by DOT that none of those weights apply to RV's. They said it only applies to non RV type trailers like was mentioned above. Flatbeds, horse trailers ect.

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 Post subject: Re: License requirements
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:11 am 
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BaracW wrote:
slinger wrote:
The GVWR of my truck is 12300. The GVWR of my trailer is 14500. The GCWR is 25000. So even though my GCWR is well under 26000 and I am well under 23000 on the CAT scale, it sounds like my "total combination weight" in certain states may be 26800?

It sure is confusing.


I'm not sure I follow. To get a GCWR, you must add the GVWR of the truck with the GVWR of the trailer. Your 12300# truck + 14500# trailer=GCWR 26500#. You would be over by 500#, and if you are from a state that requires a special license or CDL for that weight, could be ticked for overweight, if you didn't have that license. I understand those tickets can be 4 figures. Fortunately, AZ also exempts RV's from this weight calculation for CDL's and you should be good everywhere too.


This is not true. The truck manufacturer publishes the GCWR in addition to the GVWR. The GCWR essentially determines how much trailer you can legally tow with the truck assuming that you still keep the truck within it's own GVWR.

Obviously a significant portion of the trailer weight is carried on the truck. My pin weight is 2700 pounds (would be higher if I loaded the trailer to GVWR). So if I completely loaded my truck and trailer to GVWR each, my GCW would still be less than 24100, which is under the published GCWR for my truck.

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 Post subject: Re: License requirements
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:15 pm 
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I have never seen a manufacturer list a GCWR, they show GVWR, max payload (max load truck can carry) and max trailer weight (max total weight of trailer) it can pull. Though max GCWR can be calculated, actual GCWR is based on what is actually attached to the truck. I have looked all over Ford's website and they don't show a GCWR, because it varies based on the trailer you are towing. For instance, if I have a 14,000GVWR DRW truck (which can technically tow up to 31,700 lbs), and I tow a max 12,000 GVWR trailer, my maximum GCWR is 26000 lbs. However, if I use the same truck to tow a 30,000 max GVWR trailer, then my GCWR is 44,000 lbs. If you are pulled by DOT they will check the truck label for it's max GVWR and the trailer for it's max GVWR, and the total (GCWR) is what they will base for your ticket.
Sorry, don't mean to be disagreeable, but want to be accurate. :lol4

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 Post subject: Re: License requirements
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:15 pm 
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BaracW wrote:
I have never seen a manufacturer list a GCWR, they show GVWR, max payload (max load truck can carry) and max trailer weight (max total weight of trailer) it can pull. Though max GCWR can be calculated, actual GCWR is based on what is actually attached to the truck. I have looked all over Ford's website and they don't show a GCWR, because it varies based on the trailer you are towing. For instance, if I have a 14,000GVWR DRW truck (which can technically tow up to 31,700 lbs), and I tow a max 12,000 GVWR trailer, my maximum GCWR is 26000 lbs. However, if I use the same truck to tow a 30,000 max GVWR trailer, then my GCWR is 44,000 lbs. If you are pulled by DOT they will check the truck label for it's max GVWR and the trailer for it's max GVWR, and the total (GCWR) is what they will base for your ticket.
Sorry, don't mean to be disagreeable, but want to be accurate. :lol4


Here is a PDF for 2014 RAM 3500 showing a column for GCWR:
https://www.ramtrucks.com/assets/towing ... .Specs.pdf

My truck specs are on page 6 of that document. I haven't bothered to search for other manufacturers or years. I do recall Ford numbers being much more cryptic when I was considering tow vehicles and calculating payload and tow capacity.

GCWR does not depend on the trailer at all ... it is a rating on the truck. The trailer GVWR is meaningless when you discuss the truck's GCWR. Think of it as a legal limit to how much combined weight that the truck's brakes are rated to stop. To think about it another way ... If you could somehow pull a 16k trailer behind a half-ton truck and somehow magically keep the truck weight within GVWR and the trailer within GVWR, you would still bust the GCWR of the truck. A half-ton truck would not be legally certified to manage that much combined weight.

In your case, your GCWR is over 30k. Just because you tow a lighter trailer does not mean your trucks capability (GCWR) is reduced.

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 Post subject: Re: License requirements
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:24 pm 
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My apologies. I stand corrected, as Ford does show GCWR. However, I wasn't talking about the maximum the vehicle is rated for. I'm talking about what is considered for licensing or what DOT would fine you based on, if pulled over while towing. So, if I have a truck rated for GCWR of 24,500 lbs, I could tow a trailer up to the maximum allowed by manufacturer without the need for a Class A CDL? Again, the way I read FL's laws, the 10,000lb limit (for CDL purposes) for trailers only applies if the tow vehicle is rated at 26,000lbs or more. Is that how you figure it too? This is much more confusing than what I originally thought. :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: License requirements
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:43 pm 
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Generally this is not a federal DOT rule. However many states have a 26001 rule.
If the combined GVWR of the TV and trailer exceed 26001 you maybe required to have a special endorsement on your license. This is not a CDL issue but a state issue based on the rated GCWR not the actual GCW

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